There was a segment on asexuality on Radio 4′s programme Woman’s Hour (starts about 13.30 in). Below is a transcript for those that can’t listen to it. It was presented by Jenni Murray, with guests Mark Carrigan and Michael.

Jenni: Now as you can assume from our last conversation, sex has, for a long time been central to discussions about the way our civilisation is going. We’ve become more open about being homosexual or living in what used to be called ‘sin’. But we’ve also become increasingly concerned at the way sex is used to sell, particularly to children. So how does a person who has no interest in sex at all exist in an atmosphere where everybody seems to be at it? Mark Carrigan is a sociologist at the University of Warwick and has edited a book called ‘Asexuality Studies’. Michael is 29 and describes himself as asexual. Michael, at what point did you realise that you had absolutely no interest in sex?

Michael: I think for me it started when I was at school, so I was actually fairly young, 13 or so, and I noticed that everybody in my class (I was at an all male school) suddenly became very interested in girls, and this was something I simply couldn’t understand at all. I mean, of course, I’d appreciate girls as friends, in the platonic sense, but it seemed as if I was missing a sixth sense, if you like. I just couldn’t understand what sexual attraction was, and it wasn’t that I was particularly against sex it’s just that it was something that was very unfamiliar to me.

Jenni: So Mark, from a professional perspective, how would you define asexual?

Mark: I think that’s a very interesting question, because on the one hand most asexuals would assent to a shared definition as ‘not experiencing sexual attraction’, but behind that term, which is often referred to as the umbrella definition, there’s a great deal of diversity and people feel and experience different things about sex and romance.

Jenni: What do you mean?

Mark: For instance, some people within the asexual community, they experience romantic attraction, they want to pursue romantic relationships, but without a sexual component, whereas for others they don’t experience romantic or sexual attraction.

Jenni: Michel, where do you sit on this spectrum? Do you want a romantic partnership or are you fine on your own?

Michael: For the most part I’m towards what’s called the aromantic side of the spectrum, so romantic partnerships are not a big priority for me. I can certainly appreciate the benefits of growing old with a companion, especially as you see all your friends pair up, it’s the sort of thing I’m fairly ambivalent about for the most part.

Jenni: How widespread do you think this is, Mark?

Mark: The data we have on that is thus far very tentative, but one study suggested that up to one percent of the British population could be asexual. This is not suggesting that they identify as asexual, but on a large survey that was administered in the ‘90s almost 1% of respondents said they’d never experienced sexual attraction. And there’s a more recent piece research being done on the same survey data, 10 years later, suggesting the figure could be more like half a percent, so we’re starting to get some idea but research in the area is still very tentative.

Jenni: And how, Michael, did you cope with it when you were at school, when you were a teenager, and everyone else was talking about who they fancied, where were you in all those conversations?

Michael: For the most part I kept fairly quiet about it. I mean, of course like most asexual people, asexuality is not some sort of obsession of mine, like a gigantic part of my identity; I’m just a person who happens to be asexual. I don’t have a particular need to tell everybody about it. On the other hand it can be very difficult when you’re in a highly sexualised environment, because sex comes up in conversations all the time, you’re asked ‘whom do you fancy?’ I will usually just try and shrug it off, or just say “I’m not into so-and-so”. It’s quite difficult because at school you tend to, there tends to be a pervasive assumption that everybody has got to be into sex, has got to experience sexual attraction of some sort, so if you say you’re not interested in a particular woman who looks very attractive, people will automatically assume that you’re gay. Now of course, nothing at all wrong with being gay, but it’s not who I am, and it can be quite difficult to have to deal with on the one hand getting flak for, you know, homophobia which isn’t related to me, but on the other hand you have to try and fit in somehow.

Jenni: A lot of people, Mark, would say ‘oh it’s just a phase, you’ll grow out of it’ but you’re 29 now, it’s not just a phase is it?

Michael: I think that was addressed to me. Yes, you’re right, and when I was young I was very conscious about not labelling myself, precisely because you know when you’re 15, 16 you can just be an early bloomer*, you know. A lot of my age group knew that they were into women much earlier than that, and, as you say, you get to 18, 19, it’s sort of obvious that something else is going on, and like you say, when you’re 29 it’s a fairly done deal.
*Note: I think he meant late bloomer

Jenni: Mark, and this time I have got the name right, it is directed at Mark, do we know why it happens?

Mark: No we don’t, and I think the diversity you can see in the asexual community suggests that if there are underlying causes there a lot of different causes because the pathways that lead people to come to identify as asexual are, as far as we can tell from the available evidence, very different. I’m not sure personally whether it makes sense to think of research into this subject as being about what causes asexuality, in the same way that I would find it politically problematic to research what causes homosexuality. What I’m interested in is the extent to which sexualisation in contemporary society, the way in which it makes asexuality problematic for asexuals, and the way in which contemporary society marginalises asexuals, and renders their experience invisible.

Jenni: So Michael, what future do you envisage? A partner? Children?

Michael: For me, a partnership is definitely an option, if the right option came along I’d definitely take it, though I’m quite happy with friends, I have lots of friends. The other thing is that there’s now a very friendly asexual community of people you can actually empathise with, and a lot of asexuals find that they get the same benefit from a community as people who are not asexual get from partnerships, though it varies a lot from person to person.

Jenni: Mark, why do you think we seem to find it a difficult concept to deal with?

Mark: Well this has come to fascinate me, and I came to it in a similar way, I happened to meet an asexual person socially, and I just didn’t understand it, you know I just didn’t get it, I didn’t understand it, and as I’ve gone on with the research I’ve found that this is a universal experience that asexual individuals have; they tell people and they don’t understand it, and I think it’s because somewhere in recent history we’ve come to change how we see sexuality and the value we place on it and we see it in terms of human nature. There’s the pervasiveness of what I term ‘the sexual assumption’: the idea that everyone has sexual attraction and that it’s the same thing in all cases, and I think historically this hasn’t always been the case and raises the question of ‘what’s happened? What’s changed?’

Jenni: Well Mark Carrigan and Michael, thank you very much indeed.

I thought the host was very respectful which is wonderful, and well done to Mark and Michael for covering quite a lot in a short segment.

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